Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Guy In Suit » Thu May 28, 2009 10:16 am

I agree with you Ronen, and I think that any high-movement in this list should pay a premium, as it is just so good to extend that threat zone in front of dwarf blocks.

However, I think we get ahead of ourselves thinking of this thing as a chariot, when it really isn't.

http://solegends.com/citcat88/0215rocsnakes.htm

It only has a single BC on it. Sure, those things on the end are pretty nasty, maybe even D6+2 nasty on a charge, but once its momentum is gone it should have the staying power of a drunken bar slut.

If it were me:

Demon-Eater: 90 Points

M7 WS 4 BS 3 S5 T4 I3 A2 W2 Sv 3+ Chariot

Whirlwind of death: Deamon Eaters do D6+2 Impact hits when charging.

Thats it, very simple, suicide chariot that can make players think about how they are going to approach the CD army but is easily dealt with (and takes up a special slot)
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby big al » Thu May 28, 2009 12:45 pm

what's the unit strength of these? is it 4?
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Larro » Thu May 28, 2009 7:57 pm

I agree about paying for the premium of movement, but you're REDUCING IT'S MOVEMENT and INCREASING the cost significantly.

And 2 wounds? For 90 pts? Are you out of your mind? It's bad enough with 3.

- Larry
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Guy In Suit » Thu May 28, 2009 8:55 pm

Why? Look at the model larry, how many wounds does it look like it has? Its still not going to die to S3 bowfire. I think it would be very cool for a cheap unit that could hit really hard and run shit down, but otherwise does nothing, which is what that model looks like to me.
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Larro » Thu May 28, 2009 11:07 pm

You're not really trying to argue rules based on what models look like, right?

Does a Kroxigor look like it's S4 when compared to a Saurus Warrior that is S4?

But by all means, make it a 2-wound T4 model for 90 pts. - if your goal is for no one to take it. Keep in mind this is competing with other viable Special units. No one will take these if they're T4 2 wounds. You're having trouble selling me on their worth at M6, 3 wounds T5 for 130 pts.

- Larry
"Just being born means you've lost to Larro. Or haven't you gotten the memo yet?" - Nidal

"Larry was right. I know he never gets tired of hearing that." - Canterman
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Guy In Suit » Thu May 28, 2009 11:42 pm

Luckily your opinion is equally valued amongst all others. Democracy is a bitch, ain't it ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe 80 points. I really like the suicide-bomber aspect of it. That thing looks like its one step away from the retard orc with a sparkler in lord of the rings.

Another idea, give it regular bull centaur stats, LIKE THE MODEL, ie T4 1 wound, but have it be a war machine, so you 5+ to hit crew and no S7 popping. Could be interesting.
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Garrett » Fri May 29, 2009 12:02 am

I played a game with Rob Kopp tonight, using two of these bad boys, and neither one of us could figure out a compelling reason to take one of them over a clip of Bull Centaurs.
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Guy In Suit » Fri May 29, 2009 9:40 am

Charge one with swordmasters and watch yourself not get to strike and then easily get run down. :lol:
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Hashuts Scion » Fri May 29, 2009 10:30 am

The comparison of Deamoneaters to chariots has been very interesting. In many cases it parallels the juggernaut problem. Since the old CDs had these models, do the new CDs? If the answer is yes, then for what role are they used? If they are a kill unit (the high impact, continuing damage), then by all means, up the cost. If you want it to be a suicide unit, then the cost needs to be lower and make them a 1-2 cost 1 slot option (with lower impact, no continuing, lower stat line).

Personal opinion, after looking over the entire list (and owning both a whirlwind and tenderiser), I feel they have a place in the CD arsenal. Looking at running down units, you have BCs and wolfriders. You need to spend 100 pts for BCs and 65 for the hobs. What are their chances for survivals? What are their hitting power? Many armies have a chariot type unit. Some have more than one type. So, making this a chariot unit makes sense. Perhaps making them light chariots (ala TK) and making them units makes more sense.

What I think should be done, is playtest them. Report back what you see. Even design some armies using units you wouldn't normally take, just to see how they operate. Some of us will never be happy unless each unit is exactly they way we want. My HE friends loved the 'Speed of Asuryan' rule. My Vamp friends hated losing the various bloodlines. Some are never happy. It might be so with us. BUT unless you want to stop playing, most give in and incorporate the new rules.

Am I wrong to suggest we playtest them as written first?
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Re: Daemoneater version 2 comments here!

Postby Larro » Fri May 29, 2009 1:43 pm

Are we going to be able to just opt out of this nonsense and stick to the RH CD list at these Indy GTs if/when this abortion is adopted? If so, sign me up now. I have yet to hear a compelling argument from Weakland or Birdoff as to why 150 pts. and no 4th wound, when coupled with M6, is somehow fair, in light of the 3 chariots in their price range that I've compared them to, ALL of which have better Movement and nice special rules. Drop the auto-grind down to d3+1, have it go last and not first in turns it doesn't charge, and bump it to 130-135. Why is this not a viable suggestion?

- Larry
"Just being born means you've lost to Larro. Or haven't you gotten the memo yet?" - Nidal

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