Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

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Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

Postby Renufus » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:06 am

Just got back from my rematch with the Lizardmen that absolutely schooled me last time. I brought along V3 of the rules to try them out. Here's my list with some of the new goodies I wanted to use:

High Priest - Arcane Apparatus, Armour of the Furnace
Daemonsmith - shield, Hexacon
Great Horn BSB - Amulet of Hashut, CA, GW, Sh
Overseer - Wolf, LA, Sh, Blades of Backstabbing
The fluff seems to indicate that these are a set of two hand weapons which would exclude their use from mounted models, but since there don't seem to be any rules supporting this, I figured why not. Actually makes him a pretty scary support unit hunter with 4 WS5 S5 poisoned attacks, and at only 81pts! If Kev could enlighten me as to whether you're intended to be able to use the Blades on wolfback I would very much appreciate it.
20 Warriors - CA, Sh, FC, War Banner
2x15 Annihilators
2x5 Wolfies - Spear, mus
6 Centaurs - CA, Sh, GW, mus, champ
12 Obsidian Guard - Sh, Std, Stone Totem
By the way, if you want some REALLY badass-looking Obsidian Guard models, check these puppies out: http://www.sciborminiatures.com/en_,sho ... efs_01.jpg
2 Bolt Throwers
Earthshaker

My opponent used the same list as last time:

Slann - knows all spells, free PD on every spell he casts, Bane Head, some item that gives him +3 to cast on one spell (took lore of metal)
Priest w/ Engine - extra spell
Priest w/ Engine - some kind of war drum item (which I found out allows him to always march and units within 12" get +1 to rally)
3 units of 10 skirmishing skinks
2 units of 3 terradons
5 Chameleons
16 TG with a banner that gives them -1 to be hit by shooting, -2 if within 12" (which now does affect Blunderbusses... sad face)

I was hoping now that I'm familiar with the new rules, I'd do a bit better than last time. Without going into too much detail, here's how it all went down:

-I deployed pretty far back into my zone and gave him the first turn. As a result his toad ended up missing a turn of magic which helped relieve some of the stress. Other than that, 6DD and the Hexacon was plenty to keep his magic in relative check.
-One Stegadon got smacked in the head with an Earthshaker shell, the other got plucked off by Bolt Throwers, Lava Storm, and Blunderbusses. He got awfully cheeky with these things thinking they were somehow invincible. I was happy to prove his theory wrong.
-After his two Engines were out of the picture, the rest became a lot easier. His toad picked my High Priest for his Bane Head + RoBI abuse but got a 'too bad, so sad' dance from me because he was immune to fire. The Terradons were pretty quickly taken care of by Lava Storm, the Stone Totem, and the Overseer, who also chased off the Chameleon Skinks. That guy is quickly becoming one of my favourites.
-Warriors held the Temple Guard in place, Bull Centaurs hit the flank, Obsidian Guard hit the opposite flank, and with the help of Fists of Fire on the Daemonsmith (hello 5 S7 attacks hitting on 3's) wore the unit down and broke the Slann. Game over, man. Ironically, the fear ability of the Obsidian Guard, which I've been chastising for quite some time, ended up being the hero of the game. Once those ITP/stubborn Temple Guard got their scaly butts handed to them, the Slann autobroke and was chased down by the Centaurs. Foot firmly in mouth on this one.

So really, I learned a couple things from this game:
1. Chaos Dwarf magic is really, really good. Not in the sense of 'omg nerf please' but in the sense that it's so flexible that you've always got something to cast. I find that with a lot of magic phases, you don't always have enough to do because the lores can be so one-dimensional. The Lore of Hashut has a spell for every occasion, which I really love, and furthermore you can rely on it because it's bound-spell based and your casters know all their spells. No miscasting and ending your phase or blowing your wizard's head off, no missing that big 12+ casting cost, no 'dammit, I didn't get the spells I wanted.' The Magma Tide spell in particular was quite nice. This one's a winner.
2. Obsidian Guard aren't as bad as I initially thought. If you think about it, they're essentially Ironbreakers who get a great weapon, fear, and killing blow for 2 points. That's not a bad deal.
3. That Overseer is a real diamond in the rough. I love him like a son now. Well, okay, maybe not that much, but he's an awesome choice for an army that has scant else to help against fast cav, flying units, and skirmishing annoyances.
4. Bull Centaurs with the Amulet are just WOW. Seriously.

Anyway, there's probably some other things about this game I'd like to say but it's getting rather late now and it's time for me to get to bed. HAIL HASHUT!
Renufus
 
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Re: Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

Postby mattbird » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:05 am

thanks! good report. Any thoughts from your opponent?


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Re: Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

Postby Hashuts Scion » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:33 pm

My question would be, is the new list so vastly superior to v2, was it tactics used, or you're more familiar with the list itself?

If it is the superiority of the new list, that could bring cries of 'Broken!!" to those who lose to it.
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Re: Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

Postby Border Reiver » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:05 pm

I do not believe that the superiority lies in the list. The list that matt had selected was strongly based on the units that available in RH - and are most definitely not OTT. The army has a number of weaknesses, and it would appear that he compensated for them when he fought his opponent. I woudl say this was more of a familiarity than a "broken" list.
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Re: Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

Postby Renufus » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:39 pm

It wasn't the list, it was the fact that I came prepared this time and was more familiar with what kind of tricks he had up his sleeve and what I could do to deal with them. For example, deploying deep instead of right on the 12" line allowed me to take his spelltoad out of the picture for one turn while my war machines pounded on his engines. Last time I pretty much ignored the engines and threw everything at his death star unit, which is a backwards way of thinking. This time I went straight after his engines and once they went down his army was much more manageable. His support units were easy to pick off with wolf riders, the overseer, the multiple magic missiles I could throw out, and Earthquake (which, by the way, is an awesome spell).

After that, I just threw everything I could into the Slann's unit and the Bull Centaurs did something like 10 wounds on the charge with that Hatred of theirs. The magic played a big part in the outcome of the game, but all it did was support the battleplan I already had rather than win the game by itself like it does in my opponent's list. That, to me, is a sign that the magic is well-balanced.

My opponent didn't have any complaints with the list, he admitted up front that he just got outplayed this time. He raised his eyebrow at the Bull Centaur hatred unit, but after I pointed out that it cost me near 350 points for those 7 guys he was cool with it. The list played well and I definitely enjoyed myself. Next time I think I might drop the Obsidian Guard just because I don't actually have any models for them yet (saving up for the Sciborg minis), and I think I'll replace them with some Rabble and some Hobgoblins. Taking 30% of my army as characters left me a bit smaller than I like to see so hopefully with around 50 warm bodies replacing 12 that will give me numbers closer to what I like to see.
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Re: Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

Postby KevinC » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:14 pm

Hi Renufus,

Blades of Backstabbing on a mounted model is perfectly legal. Although, in reality they are two blades, the games rules simply give the bearer +1 Attack rather than counting as an additional hand weapon.

I find that with a lot of magic phases, you don't always have enough to do because the lores can be so one-dimensional. The Lore of Hashut has a spell for every occasion, which I really love, and furthermore you can rely on it because it's bound-spell based and your casters know all their spells. No miscasting and ending your phase or blowing your wizard's head off, no missing that big 12+ casting cost, no 'dammit, I didn't get the spells I wanted.


----------I'm pleased you liked it, but your statement worries me, perhaps the Lore is too good?

Thanks!
Kevin out
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Re: Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

Postby Border Reiver » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:39 pm

No, its just a good alround lore. Other lores have similar spells, and a range of casting costs, which usually makes either the basic Direct Damage spells very easy to cast while the unit moving spells are more difficult.

If any changes to the spells are contemplated, the only one that may be a bit too good is the magma wave. Change it to the effect of the old Magma Pool (magically transport the wizard, but not his mount, anywhere on the board) and you are definitely not OTT for effects.

I may try a maxed out magic list (high priest, 3 daemonsmiths, and all the bound items I can lay my mitts on) to see if its broken against other armies, but it probably won't be, as that many points dedicated to one phase is likely to lead to a deficiency in at least one other area.
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Re: Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizards rematch (V3)

Postby Renufus » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:49 pm

KevinC wrote:----------I'm pleased you liked it, but your statement worries me, perhaps the Lore is too good?

Thanks!
Kevin out


Quite the contrary. There's no way it would be able to completely blow the enemy army out of the water the way a Lizardmen or Tzeentch army would, for example. My mantra is that magic should be an element of the army that supports other elements and not the basis of an entire strategy, which is what the Chaos Dwarf magic phase accomplishes. That's why I have such a distaste for the Slann+2 Engines setup or a VC spamfest, you can build your army entirely around the magic phase and win games by just playing points denial, while with a Chaos Dwarf magic phase you can't do that.

Right now, the only thing I might change is that Magma Tide should only be able to affect a unit once per phase.
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