V3 Annihilator comments here!

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V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby mattbird » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:36 am

comments here

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One thing that got mixed up in the text- only Annihilators may fire a Concentrated Volley, and further, they must be at least 5 wide to do so. So once a unit of Annihilators is below 5 models (counting characters) they cannot fire a concentrated volley.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby mattbird » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:49 pm

Just to make it as clear as possible, the intent of the new rule is that you can target 1 unit essentially as per the old RH rules, without the necessity of using the 12" template. Each model in the unit hit on a 4+, str as per ranks, etc.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Renufus » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:46 pm

It should probably be pointed out that as written, a Chaos Dwarf character with a blunderbuss is allowed to fire a concentrated volley. There should probably be some rule that only Annihilators may fire a concentrated volley.

Also kind of disappointed that the concentrated volley suffers penalties to hit. This makes Annihilators pretty useless since most of the time they'll be hitting on 6's or 7's with their concentrated volley (moving, long range, etc)... Unless this is not what is meant by 'roll to hit as normal.'
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby mattbird » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:50 pm

it does not suffer penalties to hit, as it fires as a thrown weapon- in the rules as written!

One thing that got lost in the text someplace, as you've pointed out- only Annihilators may fire a Concentrated Volley, and further, they must be at least 5 wide to do so. So once a unit of Annihilators is below 5 models (counting characters) they cannot fire a concentrated volley.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Aves » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:11 am

Its only my suggestion, but its better to avoid "work as" as rulebook can change 2 times before we see an official GW CD armybook. So writing that Blunderbusses do not suffer from range and to move penalties would be sufficient. And its much better than a hit on 4+, as enemies can try to get cover from them, single model on foot IS less likely to get caught in this voley of led, and large targets just opposite.

As to point costs, i think 11 is the max, it should go to, including the point for overpricing, Anihilators are just the same as any other ranged infantry unit in the game, just different, more punch but shorter range, and fire power is directly affected by their number with number of shots being the same.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby elrodogg » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:22 am

Having used the v3 concentrated volley shots on units that are exactly 12" away and hitting the entire unit... 12pts is about right, to underpriced. Only because you get to hit those troops that are 13-18" away that normally wouldn't be hit. Taking a 20% chunk out of a ranked unit with a single volley, or even more from a unit of skirmishers is just plain nasty.

The obvious comparison is to either dwarf quarrellers and/or thunderers. In neither case would 20-40% of a ranked or skirminshing unit dissappear from a single volley from them with any sort of regularity, while annihilators can and do so frequently.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Dedwrekka » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:53 pm

Ronen Warrior wrote:Having used the v3 concentrated volley shots on units that are exactly 12" away and hitting the entire unit... 12pts is about right, to underpriced. Only because you get to hit those troops that are 13-18" away that normally wouldn't be hit. Taking a 20% chunk out of a ranked unit with a single volley, or even more from a unit of skirmishers is just plain nasty.

The obvious comparison is to either dwarf quarrellers and/or thunderers. In neither case would 20-40% of a ranked or skirminshing unit dissappear from a single volley from them with any sort of regularity, while annihilators can and do so frequently.

Perhaps a comparison to their closest relative (the Leadbelchers) is better then.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Fool » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:18 pm

Maybe you could keep the rules the way they are but put a cap on the number of total shots allowed? Like the number of models in the unit. Just seems wierd that 5 guys have the potential to hit and wound 30+ size units.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby Anger Worm » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:36 pm

Two versions of the shooting is overly complicated. I also dislike the fact that a 12" range gun, if within range of a single model, can now hit an entire unit. I encountered this when a single skink in woods could be seen by the front rank of blunderbuss, and though the rest of the unit was out of range (up to approximately 20" away) all 10 got hit. This seemed just odd and illogical.

Simple fix:

-Eliminate the "thrown weapon" aspect entirely. They have 1 gun, it should work 1 way.
-12" range should mean 12" range. When firing the gun, you measure range from the front rank of the buss unit. Plus 1 strength to the weapon per full additional rank in the unit (as is now). Pick a target within 12". Any models in range (within 12") are hit on a 4+ (no move or range penalties). For stand and shoot you could simply hit the front rank, or do d6 shots vs skirmishers.

This will still hammer rank and file, it's great against skirmishers, but it's not fiddly - you measure 12" just like you would any other shooting attack, and everything in that target unit is hit within that range. It's actually got a lot of potential when used in conjunction with the movement bound.

If using this rule I would consider adding armour piercing.
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Re: V3 Annihilator comments here!

Postby mattbird » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:49 pm

I'm fine with the above, apart from this part
For stand and shoot you could simply hit the front rank, or do d6 shots vs skirmishers.


I would just have them shoot as normal.
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