V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby Border Reiver » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:07 pm

Rather than allowing them to move through terrain without penalty as a formed unit what I've done is use them as skirmishers (min unit size 10) at 8 points a model. Even without the option for missile weapons they have done reasonably well. The animosity and lower Ld has meant that they aren't too OTT when they do get into combat.
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby Renufus » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:02 pm

Border Reiver wrote:Rather than allowing them to move through terrain without penalty as a formed unit what I've done is use them as skirmishers (min unit size 10) at 8 points a model. Even without the option for missile weapons they have done reasonably well. The animosity and lower Ld has meant that they aren't too OTT when they do get into combat.


This is how I've used them too. Scouting has been a marginal benefit at the very best but skirmishing has made them a viable unit I actually want to use. It gives me something to do in the movement phase besides push around a bunch of block units.
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby Border Reiver » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:22 pm

Finally had a game with these boys that did not have them suffering from animosity 2-3 times. The skirmishing really made them survivable , and allowed them to actually get a flank charge off.
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby Hashuts Scion » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:51 pm

I would also like to see the skirmishing rule for these. I was one who argued these should be a special choice, but the scout rule doesn't make them as flexible as skirmishing would. The 360 degree charge and move abilities would make them more tactically powerful as well as making others worry about them a little more.
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby mattbird » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:56 pm

I know nobody likes the scout rule. I know everyone wants skirmish for these guys, but there's a specific reason to not let them have it- it's a pretty big tool to add to the already huge Chaos Dwarf toolbox.

What if they stayed in ranks, but came in off the table edge like miners? That would make them worth taking, no?
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby Renufus » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:56 pm

mattbird wrote:I know nobody likes the scout rule. I know everyone wants skirmish for these guys, but there's a specific reason to not let them have it- it's a pretty big tool to add to the already huge Chaos Dwarf toolbox.

What if they stayed in ranks, but came in off the table edge like miners? That would make them worth taking, no?


Again, hard to say. It would definitely be an improvement, but I don't know if it's enough. It doesn't help with the fact that any sort of ranged attack is probably going to send them packing and limits them to being war machine and archer harassers, which we can already get in Wolf Riders.

Flexibility in and of itself is not a bad thing - it's when the combination of units makes for something more than the sum of its parts that things start to escalate out of control. Somehow I don't see skirmishing sneaky gits being the line between borderline low-tier and ungodly brokenness, especially when there are so many other units that need tweaking as well. At least, they haven't been all that much of a difference maker in games I've played - more like a helpful unit that can actually contribute something meaningful to the battle every once in a while for minimal cost, like the Hobgoblin hero on a wolf. Usually it's just a nice way for me to break the monotonous boredom of having little else to move but a few slow block infantry units and a cav unit or two. It's also nice to not feel totally boxed in once there's more than 1 or 2 pieces of difficult terrain on the board.
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby Maul » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:17 pm

How about throwing knives as a missile option on these guys? It is only 6" (or 10" because you can move and throw at no penalty), but it would give them a little more flexibility and make them a more compelling and versatile choice as a special unit. I would pay a point for that, but I do not think I would go 2 points a model.

I do not think giving them skirmishers takes much away from them, I think it makes their special rules more palatable to most players. Skirmishers do not take away rank bonuses when they hit a flank. The way they are now, sneaky guts hit a flank and the opponent looses ranks and has a crap load of attacks unloaded on them.
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby method » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:45 pm

i think the miners or beastman herd rules would be a better fit than the scout rules, then they can be scary is some situations
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby Poxous » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:14 pm

Hard to scout a ranked unit on most warhammer tables. Miner rules could work better.
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Re: V3 Sneaky Gits comments here!

Postby Renufus » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:18 am

Who in the hell thought it would be a good idea to actually make these guys worse?

Absolute garbage. Sorry, but they really, really suck. Ranked scouts do not work, especially with animosity, I don't think there's any way this can be made any clearer.
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