Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby DarkbloodSkullpulper » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:01 pm

Guy In Suit wrote:I think at this point the Hobs should just loose animosity. Its an O&G specific rule, and seems odd especially combines with the new images and fluff courtesy of Kev and Matt.


Bleah. They are greenskins, and greenskins have animosity. Gnoblars too, goblins, orcs, and hobgoblins. I could see "rabble" not having animosity while being led by a slaver, but I think the book would lose a lot of gamer cred if hobgoblins lost animosity.
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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby Matt » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:37 pm

DarkbloodSkullpulper wrote:
Guy In Suit wrote:I think at this point the Hobs should just loose animosity. Its an O&G specific rule, and seems odd especially combines with the new images and fluff courtesy of Kev and Matt.


Bleah. They are greenskins, and greenskins have animosity. Gnoblars too, goblins, orcs, and hobgoblins. I could see "rabble" not having animosity while being led by a slaver, but I think the book would lose a lot of gamer cred if hobgoblins lost animosity.


Not having animosity is a huge bonus in the Chaos Dwarf list. It means you can count on the unit to get the hell out of the way so that the units that don't suck can do what needs to get done.

If anything, the Slaver should "quell" animosity Black Orc style; D6 S5 hits on the unit of Rabble.


Saying that animosity is sometimes good is like say Ld6 Terror tests are good, because sometimes out of position units will flee off the table opening up better charge paths.


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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby mattbird » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:53 am

i can't imagine we'd take animosity away from them.
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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby Larro » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:54 am

I was just going along with Weakland's suggestion because it makes as much sense as Demon Eyes on Hobgobbos. :P

In all seriousness, it's good to see the possibility of 10 man Archer units back on the table.

More importantly however, I feel there needs to be a better distinction between Rabble and Hobgoblins. If Rabble were unarmored and dirt-cheap, opposed to a Hobgoblin which cost close to twice as much for armor but only a marginal increase in stats, I think we'd have 2 legitimate unit choices. Right now, if Hobgobbos stay at 5 pts., there's never going to be a reason to take them as opposed to Rabble when you realize you get essentially 2 fully-ranked Rabble units for as much or less than the equivalent in Hobgobbos. Neither unit is really there to kill anything, but just to tie down secondary units, and it isn't worth paying a premium for Hobgoblins when Rabble exist.

I think my proposed suggestions re: 4 point Hobgoblins and 5 point Hobgoblin Archers are more than legitimate. If Rabble were to be reduced a point, possibly to 2 pts. per model without armor, obviously min. size 20+, and include the forced purchase of the Overseer / Slaver, you'd have a ranked unit of about 48-52 pts. that had no animosity and no armor, opposed to the same amount of bodies of Hobgoblins costing significantly more points (80) and HAS animosity, but gains a 4+ HTH save in exchange.

I just don't see how any of this strikes you as unfair Kevin, or as me having my cake and eating it too. Trust me, I'm not lining up to take Hobgoblins either way, but I feel that at 80 pts., they're a choice vs. Rabble, whereas at 100 pts or more, they're no longer even worth considering because of their Animosity and the fact they're amazingly overpriced compared to their Goblin brothers.

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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby wizuriel » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:56 pm

yeah I'm finding all hobgoblins in the list just not to be worth it anymore. In the old list wolfriders were amazing. The high armour on fast calv made them unique (and was always kind of their thing, even in RoR they had light armour, shield and fast calv). Now they just seem terribly expensive.

and I agree with others that hobgoblins should drop back to 4pts with shield and handweapon. I know your not suppose to compare units from other books but just looking at hobgoblins versus dark elves is sad (granted imo dark elves are under priced).

Game I played against dark elves their spear men tore through my hobgoblins and their dark riders just rode circles around the wolf riders blasting them.
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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby Hashuts Scion » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:15 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 7th edition, isn't all fast cavalry armor or shield only. In that way, they only get a 5 save maximum? I know in RH, hobs mounted on wolves were fast cav and could have lt armor and/or shield.

So, although they may be more maneuvable, DE riders should have the same save as hob wr.
A reason for the cheapness of DE spearmen is the result of never seeing them in tournament armies. They were not worth it. This point may be made for hobs, but I'm still on the fence here whether they are overpriced.
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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby Larro » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:24 pm

Hobgoblins at 5 pts. are overpriced. There's really no way you can argue otherwise. Even Coleman himself admitted that 5 pts. would make them overpriced with the LA/Shields, but apparently that's not a good enough reason to drop them to 4 pts.

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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby wizuriel » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:23 pm

Hashuts Scion wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 7th edition, isn't all fast cavalry armor or shield only. In that way, they only get a 5 save maximum? I know in RH, hobs mounted on wolves were fast cav and could have lt armor and/or shield.


In 7th edition they are, though in 6th edition whenever hobgoblins wolfriders came up (pretty much only in RH and regiments of reknown) iirc they were the only fast calv with both armour and shield and fast calv. I just always thought that was kinda their thing and what made them unique.
Last edited by wizuriel on Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby WickerNipple » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:12 am

wizuriel wrote:In 7th edition they are, though in 6th edition whenever hobgoblins wolfriders came up (pretty much only in RH and dogs of war) iirc they were the only fast calv with both armour and shield and fast calv. I just always thought that was kinda their thing and what made them unique.


WE Glade Riders also had LA+S in RH, and lost it when their book came out.

It's an artifact of RH to have light cav equipped that way.
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Re: Hobgoblin Warrior and Wolf Rider comments here

Postby Hashuts Scion » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:37 am

The only other tidbit I can find is from the old "Dogs of War" published in 1998 and the additional White Dwarf articles printed around that time. They were collected into the "Warhammer Chronicles 2004". If one looked carefully, the Regiments of Renown were units that bent the rules in one way or another, gave a price/point break, or had better stats. For example, a unit of crossbowmen cost 8 pts each, had BS 3, and equipped with HW and Crossbow. The Marksmen of Miragliano cost 11 pts each, but had BS 4, and had Light armor, hw, and crossbow. Hopefully, we will also update that great book (another army of mine useless now!).

However, to the point at hand, Oglah Khan's Wolfboyz were hobgoblins mounted on wolves, cost 15 pts each and came equipped with hw, spear, bow, LA, shield and were fast cavalry. The stats were the same, so it would come down to points and/or special ability. I am in the camp that they got to have LA, shield and be fast cavalry as their special ability. Thus, our hobs on wolves should not get the break.
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