V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby mattbird » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:37 pm

Larro: I think V4 IS the best CD product to date, the book as a whole looks great with the artwork, and the rules appear to be much, much tighter. I think this book will be an asset to the entire Indy GT community, and since I've been pretty critical and vocal on things I felt deserved, it's only equally fair I give you guys credit where credit is due. You guys really did a good job.


Larry, I'm just going to hold you to this post you made previously, and disregard everything else you keep going on about. :lol:
jer732 wrote:Birdoff makes me want to rage quit life
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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Larro » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:47 pm

:P

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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby mikkjel » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:11 am

Renufus wrote:
mikkjel wrote:I think the bound spell banner is a little weak. Making it a high powerlevel and one use only (and most people will only get one chance to use it) might be an idea.

As for stacking the magic phase, 4 bound spells, a lvl4 and -d3 dispel dice is sufficiently stacked.


I wonder how many people realize the Chalice of Fire is *not* a straight-up -d3 dispel dice item, it hurts your own pool every bit as much as your opponent's.


Im quite aware of the fact, but due to the nature of the list (especially if you are going magic heavy with chalice), its definitely worth reducing the dispel pool at the cost of your pool. Id think that in a lot of cases youll end up casting one big spell with your lvl4 (scroll or IF) and then pumping through bound spells, or the other way around, depending on what you want to get through.

As for the selection of spells, it could be fun to try another default spell mechanic than "go to #1", like maybe defaulting onto the spell below you on the list. Fire will almost always be viable, while metal/shadow/death only have a few combinations of rolls that are bad. Magic being magic, it shouldnt always be totally reliable.

EDIT: Im not sure if this has been asked, but if using the Diabolic Manipulator rule, does/can the Daemonsmith act as crew to the machine?
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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Renufus » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:37 pm

A couple of notes from a game I played recently: Daemonsmiths need to be able to default. No ifs ands or buts, it needs to happen. Too much chance of rolling a bunk spell and ending up with wasted points. Either that or let them choose their one spell.

Also, once you start getting into multiple Daemonsmiths the bookkeeping for which one has which buff from their Daemon weapon gets annoying. I used 3 of them and even I wasn't sure half the time which one had what. It might be simpler just to make all Daemon weapons give +1S.
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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Aves » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:23 pm

want something akin to Empire, which is not OTT in any phase of the game


Akin to 4 unitc core calvary, 4 special cannons, 2 rare steamtanks and archlector on waraltar and some mages?
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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Larro » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:34 pm

Aves wrote:Akin to 4 unitc core calvary, 4 special cannons, 2 rare steamtanks and archlector on waraltar and some mages?


There are broken builds in every book. Say otherwise and you're just being argumentative. The fact remains that Empire is balanced in all phases and can be competitive. It's one of the better books GW has made, and they're NOT over the top. They require competent play in a Comp'd event, but give you all the necessary tools. You still need to execute with them however. There's no reason CDs can't be the same.

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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Aves » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:22 pm

umm generaly speaking empire is weak in every phase unless build according to previosly mentioned formulae. Empire and greenskins are 2 of the weakest new edition armybooks, if u want to see a balanced rooster try out HE, WoC or Dwarfs.

But putting this aside, when i compare DS to bullcentaur hero i know what i am gaining by taking Bc over DS, close combat powerhouse with 8" basic move. But what do i get when i take SLavemaster, same LD, weaker close combat but close combat is thing that might or might not happen, magis phase happens every turn. Also because they have static cast value( so power level) DS gain in usefullnes in numbers but lose this usefullnes when only 1 or 2 below 2000 points is fielded. And since 1st one is sort of a no brainer, 2nd and 3rd follows.

Maby its wrong thread to ask for Slavemaster boost but maby watchfull eye of tyrant could cause hobgoblins to be more obedient, maby animosity reroll once per turn per Slavemaster to one chosen unit in 12"? So 2 slavemasters 2 rerolls, not for same unit ofc (rerolls cant ever be rerolled) but this could be a cool tool if u decide to rol again after rolling 3 (hoping for 6 :D ) etc.
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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby mikkjel » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:00 am

If you want daemons weapons to have some variety but still require less book keeping, why not just let the daemon smiths chose how they want them to work at the start of each combat? Perhaps chose between magical GW, magical double hand weapons or magical halberd?

As for the empire book, its definitely not weak at all. Its hard to rate well, being quite diverse, but a standard list with one stank, two cannons, lector, 3 lvl2 has a solid combat phase, solid shooting phase and a very good magic phase, almost no matter what else you put in the army.
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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Larro » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:46 am

Aves wrote:umm generaly speaking empire is weak in every phase unless build according to previosly mentioned formulae. Empire and greenskins are 2 of the weakest new edition armybooks, if u want to see a balanced rooster try out HE, WoC or Dwarfs.


After this ridiculous statement, your opinion on all-things Warhammer should now be null and void.

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Re: V4 Daemonsmith comments here!

Postby Guy In Suit » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:11 pm

Come now, Larry; Dwarves are a sturdy folk and quite good at balancing roosters.
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