New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby mattbird » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:22 pm

edited- "virtually everyone".

look, I'm getting too frustrated at this point, I'm going to stop following this thread. Just make a decision on points, and let me know what it is, and I'll stick it in the book.
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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby Renufus » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:34 pm

Aves wrote:
e all, EVERYONE, said that Golems were too expensive


I disagree, 65 is quite modest for unit that can mangle lots stuff in this game that currently overpowered, Cairn Wraiths are game winning unit, treeman, blood knights with regeneration, Hydra, all that was pulled before. Magical +flaming attacks and treekin stats are worth this 65 points. No this unit wont hold agains 30 ghouls, but CD army has cores to deal with masses, specials to deal with masses, having tough flanking unit for modest minimum of 195 points is alright, and dragonogres are balanced with rather low LD and inability to takechaos Marks.


Just because an ability is situational doesn't mean it's good. You're using the best case scenario as a basis for your argument when you should be looking at how the unit performs against the other 90% of units who don't care whether your attacks are magical and flaming. This ability certainly isn't on the same level as, say, M7 or a 5+ ward save or being quasi-unbreakable. While useful against a small handful of units, this ability is not enough to put Golems on the level of even other 65pt Ogre class units, which most people would agree are also nothing great. This is especially true in light of the fact that Golems are quite slow and if an opponent knows they have magical, flaming attacks it's quite easy to avoid them with whatever units are vulnerable to such things.

An armor buff to 3+ for Golems would at least put them on par with these other units and while that still doesn't make them overly good, it at least makes them worth considering. The weapon options they currently have also need to be a bit cheaper because you're not going to get much mileage out of something you'll get to shoot once, maybe twice a game *if* you neglect to march with the unit and even then the weapons are only likely to cause a negligible amount of damage. In fact I see so little value in the weapon options that I've been very vocally against the unit having them at all since the beginning, but at this point it seems that's not going to change.
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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby Border Reiver » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:44 pm

Actually, I've found that while slightly overpriced, the golems have performed well for me in previous games. I'm going to try a few of these out and see how they do. Personally, with these upgrades I believe that this unit would definitely be a game winner.

Now to put my money where my mouth is.
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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby KevinC » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:36 am

Ok, no more talk about the price of Golems.

What we need to know is about the new Construct Weapons, please try and get a few games in with them and please post if you like them, don't them or any comments about them.

Thanks,

Kevin out
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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby Renufus » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:43 pm

My personal take: Too complicated and too much bookkeeping trying to keep track of which golem has what and how many wounds each has taken, and how attacks are divided up in combat based on who's in base contact with who since each one is different. Just a lot of fuss and seems too 'fan-made,' if you know what I mean. I'm not sold on the idea of having construct weapons at all. Just give me a useful, reasonably priced Ogre-class unit and forget all the fancy bells and whistles.
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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby Garrett » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:21 am

I think you could incorporate some of the upgrades as just a flat, across-the-unit sort of thing, like the improved armor.
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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby Larro » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:37 am

Agreed on the book-keeping, and feels too much like 5th edition.

Though I've got the same complaint for the random buffs on the Demonsmiths. They should just be S5 like they were previously. Rolling and keep track of each DS, as well as each separate Golem, seems a bit annoying, especially given the potential variance amongst Golems.

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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby elrodogg » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:10 pm

If you are gonna incorporate these, they should apply to the champion only and they should be able to select only a single one. I can see people calling shouts of beardiness if their randomized shooting ends up only killing a single golem when they like 10+ unsaved wounds. Compare to Orb Nob Bikers in 40k which are universally regarded as one of the premier units precisely because of the ability to shrug off numerous wounds because they are all armed differently.
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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby Garrett » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:28 pm

Well, this is what I was thinking. The unit can recieve one 'armor' upgrade and one 'weapon' upgrade. The 'champion' model can recieve a further upgrade, which would be the Face of Hashut *or* the bound magic missile thing. Armor upgrades would include the +1 to armor save, the MR2 upgrade, etcetera. The weapon upgrades include the great weapons, the extra attacks, ASF, etc. Pretty simple then and only the unit champion model is unique.
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Re: New Construct Weapon, please try with Inferno Golems

Postby Garrett » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:24 am

*taptap* This thing on? Comments on that last idea? I'm going to play Dan's gnoblar horde today with my CDs, looks like I'm going to bring them to Crossroads, and I've got points set aside for either Golem upgrades or more goblins. Let me know.
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